Anybody knows WinDev?

[rstanciu]

no, no, no,
you don't dump the existing application.

Just expose it as Web-Service.

Use Android SDK (or IPhone SDK) and give a new live to the existing application.

Use Ajax/GoogleAPI/RICO for the web.

All the job is already done.

You can Copy/Paste 70% of 4GL code.

Take a look to the picture.

Of course, we have a work to do, but if we stay and if & wait ... we are dead. don't speek about.

 

[tamhas]

But, the question remains ... is there a business purpose in doing so? The OP hasn't asked us about WinDev because they wanted a browser based app, as near as I can tell. Exposing as a web service and building RIA clients is going to be a major cost difference from merely upgrading the application to a new version of Progress and moving forward with that. And, if fat client is OK for what they are doing now, the ABL GUI for .NET provides a channel for them making what they have selectively a whole lot prettier, without having to develop a whole new UI.

 

[rstanciu]

In my opinion the "business purpose to doing this" is there. The japanese people can pay everything using a
Smart-Phone. We are in the Age-Of-The-Glass comparing.
In my opinion, the question is: "what is hapening if we don't go to the Smart-Phones?",
GUI for .Net is old. If you purpose me this in 2002, OK I buy, but today I never buy this.

 

[tamhas]

I don't question that there are lots of applications well suited for browser-based apps these days. I have been pushing that as a solution since installing a Siebel application some years ago and being impressed with their pre-Ajax solution. But, one can never make these decisions in a vacuum. Not every application is sensibly accessed from a smart phone or even remotely. Do you want your stock broker managing your investment account from a smart phone?

More importantly, in the context of this thread ... we are, after all, trying to help someone who asked a question here ... we have a company who has been too cheap to keep up the maintenance on their existing Progress application. Moreover, the little we know about the application and architecture, it sounds like it is probably fat client, no AppServer, no ESB, no layering. So, rewriting it to be browser based is not only pretty close to a total transformation of the application, but is going to require additional licenses when they are already spooked by the cost of rebuying the Progress license.

So, choice are:
1. Dump the current application and buy some other COTS application.
2. Dump the current application and build a new application using a new technology.
3. Relicense Progress and completely rewrite the application to make it modern.
4. Relicentse Progress and make gradual improvements.
5. Do nothing.

Assume #5 is not an option. #1 is very expensive in licenses and loses all company specific modifications that help run the business as well as limiting the changes that can be made going forward. #2 could be anything from free to moderate in license costs, but is going to take a huge investment in programmer time, so it is going to end up being expensive unless the current application is trivial. #4 is moderate in license costs, but could be expensive in developer time depending on how much modernization one wanted to do. It could be justified, but only if there is a good business reason and those could justify #2 as well. #5 is modest in license costs and requires almost zero developer time unless or until one decides to make some incremental change. I.e., it allows going forward indefinitely, preserving all existing custom business logic, and allows one to make spot improvements on a project by project basis as they are justified and affordable.

 

[rstanciu]

I'm in the context of this thread ..... I decided to buy a house constructed by a couple of germans.
And all the electric system is german. To connect a french TV is a kind of ninghmare (MC.Giver using the scotck)
When I choose to change the system (to the French), I say YES, to pay the price.
IF monney = FALSE --> (no problem) ->> DO:
Choose option 5 -- ("Do nothing").
TV option = FALSE.
END.

 

[allard]

Hi
I use windev and I think it’s an fantastic product. It has nice controls so you donnot have to buy them. The 5 GL is cool. Though I donnot use the RAD code generator. Although the RAD engine is completely configurable. I donnot use any of the so called tools. My experience with them is that they are cool but if one wants something slightly different you cannot get it right. So I make everything myself. And that is possible although it’s a so called 5 gl !!!
So I donnot develop 10 times faster but say 4 times faster than vb.net
If you develop database projects windev is fantastic. If you want to develop a cat drawing programm ,you can but it tends to be to slow ( This Is not my own experience , but heard it from someone who did) But you can use other languages to make specific dll’s. It’s a completely open system. I even wrote java code in windev directly ( You can switch the editor to java mode )
You can possibly use all of your 4 gl code as well.
At a developers meating I saw an music app made 95% made in windev. It’s very powerful . But what can I say.
Take a look at their website http://www.windev.com/nativesaccess/ANProgress.htm and read the testimonials of Jhone deere and porche.
I donnot ever want to change. If you look at their site take a look at webdev and windev mobile as well. Webdev rocks.

 

[ezequiel]

Thanks, Allard, that's what we needed, a first-hand opinion.

 

[allard]

I thought let post some relevant info. So here again some info

Windev comes with some pretty cool stuff out of the box. For instance automatic update and a feature you can select for your project so the end user can mail a bug. It comes with a cool installer tool . Out of the the box you can put your project on a website and the user apps know that a new version is available and if it is mandatory. On a lan there are even more cool features. And the nice thing is.

This comes with source code as well.

The negative thing about this is that it comes with powered by windev advertising. I donnot want my users to now I use windev so I have to remove all this advertising stuff.


Its not just and ide. It comes with a source code database with version control and project management features. As you develop on a project hours are automatically registered . So you can see hours spend on the project.
It comes with task lists per programmer witch can be put there by the project manager or can come from a customer ( bug report)( witch the customer send you via the bugmailing feature ( witch you can ad to your program)

It has an fantastic uml tool

It has test robot features so you can run a test robot to test your app

It has automatic help file creation features, witch you can modify and expand. Point and click F1 feature in your program so the end user can go the specific help page for a specific screen of your app takes 2 seconds.

It can create a complete rapport on your project with uml , sourcecode, files and queries used etc.
It has a fantastic report generator. You can even specify that your customer can make his own reports
It has lots of little cool features. You can put the sources of two versions next to each other to seen the changes you have made in a new version

Three tier is possible although I work this way.
You can make components that other developers can use but not modify.

What can I say. They thought of everything one can think of and it’s all free

 

[CarlosO]

As I said a post earlier, we have Progress 9.1D and 10 years of applications. We cannot give up to them. Allard, thanks for your answer and your opinions. I have some additional questions:
- -Did you have Progress RDBMS and migrate to WinDev and HyperFileSQL?
- -Do you have Progress RDBMS and re-write your applications to WinDev but continue using Progress with the Progress Native Access?
- -You said: “You can possibly use all of your 4 gl code as well “. What’s that mean? Can I use my 4GL Progress code and use it in WinDev?
- -What version of Windev are you using?
Thanks.

 

[allard]

Hi carlos,
Iam using version 15 . I used to code in vb ,changed to windev some 1,5 year ago
I have not migrated progress rdbms to hyperfile. And I am not saying that you should. For progress problebly is more powerful .
I have not used progress code in windev. But I have used c#. I am not an expert on this. If you post it to the following forum you might get an answer form someone who has hands on experience:
http://forum.mysnip.de/list.php?27131

 

[Zuk]

I worked with Windev since 10 years (v 5.5 to 15), and just worked with Progress (v10.1) since 4 month : I just have one question : how can we continu to work with Progress... really I don't understand... (I understand for old application maintenance, but really not for new project...)

Have a look http://www.windev.com/