Progress webclient license

[firestream]

hi,

We've been using character client 9.1E (Unix) in our environment for years and our vendor suggesting that we modernize our front-end UI by porting some of the program to Webclient GUI. The suggestion sound logical since we also have a lot of pain maintaining the print queue with the remote site so pushing the printing to Windows solve some of our issue/limitation. I need confirmation that the additional license required for such is just additional Appserver since webclient is free ? We are looking at stateless environment to keep the Appserver count low .

 

[TomBascom]

That is correct.

 

[firestream]

so say if I have 1000 enterprise licenses, I can buy say 20 Appserver licenses for stateless mode and I should be fine ? I just want to make sure that we are not required to buy 1000 Appserver license since that's going to be painful if it's required.

 

[firestream]

by the way, it will be good if there a published doc that explain the different license model.

 

[jongpau]

I think you should contact your VAR that supplies you with your Progress licenses, your Progress Sales rep or the Progress office in your country, wichever is applicable to you. They should be able to explain all the options to you and give you a quote (or provide you with a document on the licensing options there are).

 

[Rob Fitzpatrick]

by the way, it will be good if there a published doc that explain the different license model.

There is such a document, though it is not publicly accessible. It's called the OpenEdge Policy Guide, and you should ask your vendor (if indirect) or Progress (if direct) for a copy of it. Given that you're on v9 there may be an earlier version of the document that applies to your licenses.

 

[RealHeavyDude]

Usually Progress' sales resp will try to talk you into the following: The number of licenses for the AppServer and the database it connects to must be equal.

Therefore be aware when talking to your Progress sales rep.

Last time I checked the licenses cost for one user Client/Networking and AppServer were equal. The pro argument for WebClient is that you don't need to buy any runtime license like Client/Networking for it - but you do need to by an AppServer license in order to accomodate the client. The question usually is, regardless of the license model: How much users or devices do connect to your backend. That is the number of AppServer and database licenses Progress wants you to buy. Therefore you don't need to license the number of AppServer agents you start to accomodate the clients - which in a stateless model is usually way lower than clients that connect, 1:50 is not uncommon of course depending on the application - but clients that actually connect.

Of course, when talking to Progress' sales reps this is subject to discussion - these are just some pointers, probably the starting position of the Progress sales rep at the beginning of the negotiation game ...

Heavy Regards, RealHeavyDude.

 

[firestream]

There is such a document, though it is not publicly accessible. It's called the OpenEdge Policy Guide, and you should ask your vendor (if indirect) or Progress (if direct) for a copy of it. Given that you're on v9 there may be an earlier version of the document that applies to your licenses.

Can anyone drop me a copy for the v9 version ? I google and saw the OE10 version but not v9.

 

[TomBascom]

Usually Progress' sales resp will try to talk you into the following: The number of licenses for the AppServer and the database it connects to must be equal.

Therefore be aware when talking to your Progress sales rep.

This is an excellent point and it cannot be emphasized enough.

Before your start any negotiations with a Progress sales rep -- or a partner rep (or any commission based sales person) first obtain the relevant pricing and policy guide. Refuse to speak to them about *anything* until you have a copy of the guide and you have read it.

If you start "discussions" (which are really negotiations, no matter how friendly you may think the rep is) before you have read the policy guide then you are doomed. It will not help you to read it later -- once they have a few sizing "sound bites" from you and send you a quote it will be like getting a UN Treaty through the US Senate to get anything better. The rep's management will feel like they have to backup their rep's hallucination because the sales revenue will have been forecast all the way up the ladder and everyone is on the hook for it. Everyone's comp numbers are based off that initial quote -- it can never go down, only up. They will twist and turn every which way to convince you that whatever bizarre fantasy pricing scheme they came up with is real and necessary. If they don't do that then the regional sales manager won't be able to afford their second yacht...

Defend yourself. Get the policy guide first and ask lots of questions about different scenarios. Do NOT ever suggest what you think might be a "worst case" scenario to them -- that will quickly become the base quote and you will then find out what a true worst case looks like. If you really feel like you must talk about "worst case" scenarios couch them as hypothetical "5 years from now" options and frequently reference other directions that you might have to consider if the pricing is not extremely favorable.

For what it is worth -- I have nothing against paying fair and equitable license costs. We're all trying to make money. But I have seen far too many cases where commission based sales people have completely and utterly abused defenseless customers.

One more thing -- while you're reviewing the license terms... have your legal team strike the change of control clause. The one where if your company gets sold or changes its name the sales guy comes back and tells you that you have to "relicense" everything (that means pay for it again as if it is brand-new).

 

[firestream]

I was just told the policy guide is only for internal circulation . Ouch !!!

I had a look at the EULA that we have for our 9.1 enterprise database license and none of the line talk about the Appserver in specific other than it is a concurrent based license.

 

[TomBascom]

I was just told the policy guide is only for internal circulation .

That is not true.

Ouch !!!

Insist that they share it before you talk to them.

The *pricing* guide is for internal use. Although I would argue that that is stupid as well.

But the policy guide is not. Since license audits are all the rage these days and they may very well threaten such a thing if you start to ask hard questions about policy you might ask them how, exactly, you are supposed to know if you are following policy if you do not have a copy of the policy to refer to?

I had a look at the EULA that we have for our 9.1 enterprise database license and none of the line talk about the Appserver in specific other than it is a concurrent based license.

The v9 EULA was written so long ago that hardly any of it makes sense in the real world.

BTW -- you should upgrade to something modern. Like 11.2.

 

[firestream]

I still getting 2 different answer.
The sales insist that although we have 1000 enterprise DB license, we still need to buy the same amount of Appserver license in order to use webclient. However, my other contact insist that it's not true as we already have enough DB licenses to cover that.

Seriously, Microsoft & Oracle pricing policy is so much easy to understand, and cheaper too if you take into considering all the double count of user license from DB to Appserver.

 

[firestream]

Anyone hv a copy of the policy, please share it with me .
firestream999@ gmail.com

 

[TomBascom]

You do need app server licenses. But not necessarily the same number of them. That would depend on the nature of the client connections.

I don't have a v9 policy guide anywhere where I can find it -- v9 is ancient, obsolete and unsupported. Insist that sales provide you with the policy guide. No policy guide, no sale. No sale, no commission. Eventually they will understand that you're serious.

Although... at this point the real reason they won't share it is probably that they have already forecast a 1,000 user app-server license. And when you get the policy guide you might discover that you really only need a 5 agent license. (Didn't I tell you not to give them any sizing information?)

 

[firestream]

How about version 10 policy guide? I like the idea of running a version 10 appserver so we can use some of the more advance stuff especially web services and XML